Comments on: The Ministers for Omnipotent Ruritania Offer You a Deal http://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/2008/04/04/the-ministers-for-omnipotent-ruritania-offer-you-a-deal/ Culture, Politics, Academia and Other Shiny Objects Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:26:04 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: peter55 http://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/2008/04/04/the-ministers-for-omnipotent-ruritania-offer-you-a-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-5187 peter55 Wed, 09 Apr 2008 16:05:35 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=552#comment-5187 Nord -- well, costs can also provide leverage. In the traditions of most maBantu peoples in Southern Africa, the family of an intending groom must make a payment to the family of the intending bride, a so-called lobola or bride-price, which is usually paid in instalments. In most marriages, the bride's family resists ever receiving the final instalment due, since whilesoever some amount is owed, the bride's family has some leverage over the groom. I am sure that the unpaid debts of (eg) the Zimbabwe Electricity Supply Authority to South Africa provide the South African Government with power over events in Zimbabwe they would not otherwise have. Nord — well, costs can also provide leverage. In the traditions of most maBantu peoples in Southern Africa, the family of an intending groom must make a payment to the family of the intending bride, a so-called lobola or bride-price, which is usually paid in instalments. In most marriages, the bride’s family resists ever receiving the final instalment due, since whilesoever some amount is owed, the bride’s family has some leverage over the groom. I am sure that the unpaid debts of (eg) the Zimbabwe Electricity Supply Authority to South Africa provide the South African Government with power over events in Zimbabwe they would not otherwise have.

]]> By: nord http://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/2008/04/04/the-ministers-for-omnipotent-ruritania-offer-you-a-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-5179 nord Tue, 08 Apr 2008 02:15:33 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=552#comment-5179 I guess I'm more surprised/disappointed by Mbeki & the ANC. Could fear of losing power really be that big a threat to them? Now? How long will they wait until the vote is counted? Even ignoring the damage that ZANU-PF has done within Zimbabwe, I would have thought the costs that are being imposed on SA would have biased them towards accepting or even supporting change. I guess I’m more surprised/disappointed by Mbeki & the ANC. Could fear of losing power really be that big a threat to them? Now? How long will they wait until the vote is counted? Even ignoring the damage that ZANU-PF has done within Zimbabwe, I would have thought the costs that are being imposed on SA would have biased them towards accepting or even supporting change.

]]> By: peter55 http://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/2008/04/04/the-ministers-for-omnipotent-ruritania-offer-you-a-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-5177 peter55 Sun, 06 Apr 2008 21:05:11 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=552#comment-5177 The south african journalist R. W. Johnson has an interesting account (who knows if it is true) of the machinations within ZANU-PF following the elections in today's Sunday Times, <a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article3689991.ece" rel="nofollow">here</a>: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article3689991.ece The south african journalist R. W. Johnson has an interesting account (who knows if it is true) of the machinations within ZANU-PF following the elections in today’s Sunday Times, here:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article3689991.ece

]]> By: Random African http://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/2008/04/04/the-ministers-for-omnipotent-ruritania-offer-you-a-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-5169 Random African Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:31:51 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=552#comment-5169 Yet, the likes of Mathieu Kerekou, Denis Sassou-Nguesso and Didier Ratsiraka left power in rather peacefully. I would assume that in their cases there were pressure from within their regimes and political calculations (successful too since the 3 of them came back to power eventually). May be the open western hostility is really counter-productive. After all, hardly anybody ever cared Congo-Brazzaville, Benin or Madagascar. Yet, the likes of Mathieu Kerekou, Denis Sassou-Nguesso and Didier Ratsiraka left power in rather peacefully. I would assume that in their cases there were pressure from within their regimes and political calculations (successful too since the 3 of them came back to power eventually).

May be the open western hostility is really counter-productive. After all, hardly anybody ever cared Congo-Brazzaville, Benin or Madagascar.

]]> By: peter55 http://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/2008/04/04/the-ministers-for-omnipotent-ruritania-offer-you-a-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-5167 peter55 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 17:29:50 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=552#comment-5167 Superb post, Timothy. Although I've not known any dictators (apart from once shaking the hand of Joseph Mobutu), I suspect they share a smug self-belief which may preclude fully dispassionate decision-making. That Robert Mugabe survived harrassment, arrest and 10 years in prison under Ian Smith (some of which he spent in forlorn scrubland), in-fighting within and between the various liberation parties before Independence, terrorist bombings from disgruntled white settlers and/or white South African agents following Independence, and successive election victories (however muddied these victories have become), probably makes him believe he has a certain good fortune on his side. If you think the force is with you, you'll be making decisions very differently than otherwise. Superb post, Timothy.

Although I’ve not known any dictators (apart from once shaking the hand of Joseph Mobutu), I suspect they share a smug self-belief which may preclude fully dispassionate decision-making. That Robert Mugabe survived harrassment, arrest and 10 years in prison under Ian Smith (some of which he spent in forlorn scrubland), in-fighting within and between the various liberation parties before Independence, terrorist bombings from disgruntled white settlers and/or white South African agents following Independence, and successive election victories (however muddied these victories have become), probably makes him believe he has a certain good fortune on his side. If you think the force is with you, you’ll be making decisions very differently than otherwise.

]]> By: Fats Durston http://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/2008/04/04/the-ministers-for-omnipotent-ruritania-offer-you-a-deal/comment-page-1/#comment-5163 Fats Durston Fri, 04 Apr 2008 15:38:12 +0000 http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=552#comment-5163 While I agree with you entirely about the hubris of the philosopher-kings, I don't think <i>anyone outside of the rarified settings where generic 12-point plans for peacemaking and incentivizing prosecutions for genocide are composed knows is that every such action is and will be sui generis.</i> It seems to me that nearly everyone entering my classes (granted, they are ~20) thinks that learning how to construct peace plans (or effective empires, depending on political stance) is the only reason for studying history, even if they wouldn't articulate it that way. While I agree with you entirely about the hubris of the philosopher-kings, I don’t think

anyone outside of the rarified settings where generic 12-point plans for peacemaking and incentivizing prosecutions for genocide are composed knows is that every such action is and will be sui generis.

It seems to me that nearly everyone entering my classes (granted, they are ~20) thinks that learning how to construct peace plans (or effective empires, depending on political stance) is the only reason for studying history, even if they wouldn’t articulate it that way.

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