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	<title>Comments on: The Protection of the Uninitiated</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/2009/03/12/the-protection-of-the-uninitiated/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/2009/03/12/the-protection-of-the-uninitiated/</link>
	<description>Culture, Politics, Academia and Other Shiny Objects</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:26:04 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: AndrewSshi</title>
		<link>http://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/2009/03/12/the-protection-of-the-uninitiated/comment-page-1/#comment-6276</link>
		<dc:creator>AndrewSshi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 12:47:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=753#comment-6276</guid>
		<description>You know, this particular cultural momnet&quot;--Look comic movies that aren&#039;t just for kids anymore!&quot;--leaves me with an odd sort of feeling.  It&#039;s the same as when LotR was big.  Here&#039;s something that was for the longest time my own private diversion, an interest whose co-sharers I could count on one hand, and now it&#039;s splashed on a huge screen for everyone.  It&#039;s... unheimlich.

I&#039;m impressed at how Snyder&#039;s pornography of violence meshed so well with Alan Moore&#039;s repulsive nihilism.  The end result was a very good movie that still left a really bad taste in my mouth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, this particular cultural momnet&#8221;&#8211;Look comic movies that aren&#8217;t just for kids anymore!&#8221;&#8211;leaves me with an odd sort of feeling.  It&#8217;s the same as when LotR was big.  Here&#8217;s something that was for the longest time my own private diversion, an interest whose co-sharers I could count on one hand, and now it&#8217;s splashed on a huge screen for everyone.  It&#8217;s&#8230; unheimlich.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m impressed at how Snyder&#8217;s pornography of violence meshed so well with Alan Moore&#8217;s repulsive nihilism.  The end result was a very good movie that still left a really bad taste in my mouth.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Rehak</title>
		<link>http://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/2009/03/12/the-protection-of-the-uninitiated/comment-page-1/#comment-6274</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Rehak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 00:54:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=753#comment-6274</guid>
		<description>Tim: perceptive post -- the issue of geek gate-keeping (or &quot;Who Watches Those Who Watch the Watchmen?&quot;) seems to me one of the interesting aspects of audience sociology emerging around transmedia franchises generally, which hinge on properties that are both unusually complex (requiring quite specific and abstruse reading competencies) and unusually profligate -- adaptable and extensible to reach a wide audience. There&#039;s a basic tension and instability there, and I wonder at what point a fault line will emerge between the forces that want to spread the gospel of great geek texts, and those that work to preserve it as a sacred, private reserve.

As for the &quot;cometary halo,&quot; the problem with the model is that it propagates backwards in time, starting as a diffuse mist of knowledge and anticipation, then slowly converging to a single hard core when the media text itself goes &quot;live.&quot; In its countertemporality it&#039;s like the Devron anomaly in &quot;All Good Things ...&quot; -- a reference I suspect you&#039;ll get. Geek high five!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim: perceptive post &#8212; the issue of geek gate-keeping (or &#8220;Who Watches Those Who Watch the Watchmen?&#8221;) seems to me one of the interesting aspects of audience sociology emerging around transmedia franchises generally, which hinge on properties that are both unusually complex (requiring quite specific and abstruse reading competencies) and unusually profligate &#8212; adaptable and extensible to reach a wide audience. There&#8217;s a basic tension and instability there, and I wonder at what point a fault line will emerge between the forces that want to spread the gospel of great geek texts, and those that work to preserve it as a sacred, private reserve.</p>
<p>As for the &#8220;cometary halo,&#8221; the problem with the model is that it propagates backwards in time, starting as a diffuse mist of knowledge and anticipation, then slowly converging to a single hard core when the media text itself goes &#8220;live.&#8221; In its countertemporality it&#8217;s like the Devron anomaly in &#8220;All Good Things &#8230;&#8221; &#8212; a reference I suspect you&#8217;ll get. Geek high five!</p>
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		<title>By: evangoer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/2009/03/12/the-protection-of-the-uninitiated/comment-page-1/#comment-6268</link>
		<dc:creator>evangoer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 16:05:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=753#comment-6268</guid>
		<description>It seems that for certain Extremely Smart Persons, the film &lt;a href=&quot;http://acephalous.typepad.com/acephalous/2009/03/watchmen-and-the-scene-of-reading-being-a-response-to-anthony-lanes-review-of-zak-snyders-adaptation.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;didn&#039;t capture that point obviously enough&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems that for certain Extremely Smart Persons, the film <a href="http://acephalous.typepad.com/acephalous/2009/03/watchmen-and-the-scene-of-reading-being-a-response-to-anthony-lanes-review-of-zak-snyders-adaptation.html" rel="nofollow">didn&#8217;t capture that point obviously enough</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Burke</title>
		<link>http://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/2009/03/12/the-protection-of-the-uninitiated/comment-page-1/#comment-6267</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Burke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=753#comment-6267</guid>
		<description>Yeah, that&#039;s true: she&#039;s more a plot device than a fully realized character even in the graphic novel. Nite Owl II is really the sympathetic viewpoint character, and he&#039;s handled very well in the same way in the movie. (Rorschach the accidental viewpoint character whose sociopathy is handled so sympathetically that a lot of people just overlooked the extent to which Moore means him to be repellant; that too the film captures pretty well.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, that&#8217;s true: she&#8217;s more a plot device than a fully realized character even in the graphic novel. Nite Owl II is really the sympathetic viewpoint character, and he&#8217;s handled very well in the same way in the movie. (Rorschach the accidental viewpoint character whose sociopathy is handled so sympathetically that a lot of people just overlooked the extent to which Moore means him to be repellant; that too the film captures pretty well.)</p>
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		<title>By: G. Weaire</title>
		<link>http://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/2009/03/12/the-protection-of-the-uninitiated/comment-page-1/#comment-6266</link>
		<dc:creator>G. Weaire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:18:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=753#comment-6266</guid>
		<description>I won&#039;t be seeing the film for a while, but, if Akerman&#039;s performance is bad, that&#039;s oddly appropriate - the character itself represents the least successful aspect of the source material (at least for me).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I won&#8217;t be seeing the film for a while, but, if Akerman&#8217;s performance is bad, that&#8217;s oddly appropriate &#8211; the character itself represents the least successful aspect of the source material (at least for me).</p>
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		<title>By: fridaykr</title>
		<link>http://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/2009/03/12/the-protection-of-the-uninitiated/comment-page-1/#comment-6264</link>
		<dc:creator>fridaykr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:58:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=753#comment-6264</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t seen the movie yet, but I am a huge fan of the graphic novel.

Occasionally I find myself justifying the appeal of what I consider genre expanding works like Watchmen or the new Battlestar Galactica (before its recent decline) in conversations with those like my wife who are highly educated but who don&#039;t share these interests.

Since aesthetic discussions have a tendency to regress towards justifications of personal perference rooted in conceptions of self identity, I try to steer clear of these types of conversations. When I do engage in them, I try to describe a work in terms of what other works in its genre have done before it. In the case of science fiction, sometimes its appropriate to look across genres for these comparisons. 

That brings us to the Watchmen movie. What has been missing in so much of the mainstream reviews of the movie --NYTimes, Washingtonpost, Salon, etc. is this very comparison to other superhero movies, an attempt to situate the film within the conventions those movies, and at least an acknowledgement that this film is in many ways very very different.

My wife will never see this movie, and even if she did, she probably wouldn&#039;t enjoy it. But she did appreciate Watchmen more when I told her what the graphic novel repesented an attempt to show the superhero--and by extension the genre--as politically suspect, morally flawed, and sexually perverse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t seen the movie yet, but I am a huge fan of the graphic novel.</p>
<p>Occasionally I find myself justifying the appeal of what I consider genre expanding works like Watchmen or the new Battlestar Galactica (before its recent decline) in conversations with those like my wife who are highly educated but who don&#8217;t share these interests.</p>
<p>Since aesthetic discussions have a tendency to regress towards justifications of personal perference rooted in conceptions of self identity, I try to steer clear of these types of conversations. When I do engage in them, I try to describe a work in terms of what other works in its genre have done before it. In the case of science fiction, sometimes its appropriate to look across genres for these comparisons. </p>
<p>That brings us to the Watchmen movie. What has been missing in so much of the mainstream reviews of the movie &#8211;NYTimes, Washingtonpost, Salon, etc. is this very comparison to other superhero movies, an attempt to situate the film within the conventions those movies, and at least an acknowledgement that this film is in many ways very very different.</p>
<p>My wife will never see this movie, and even if she did, she probably wouldn&#8217;t enjoy it. But she did appreciate Watchmen more when I told her what the graphic novel repesented an attempt to show the superhero&#8211;and by extension the genre&#8211;as politically suspect, morally flawed, and sexually perverse.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Dresner</title>
		<link>http://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/2009/03/12/the-protection-of-the-uninitiated/comment-page-1/#comment-6263</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Dresner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 13:06:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=753#comment-6263</guid>
		<description>This is what we geeks and nerds forget: some of this stuff is &lt;i&gt;good&lt;/i&gt; literature, and the deep context, while fun, really isn&#039;t necessary. Having the context may make it &lt;i&gt;Great&lt;/i&gt; (or, conversely, make it only OK), but it&#039;s not necessary. 

I actually try to make that point about literature: the &quot;high culture&quot; and &quot;classics&quot; mostly exist and are revered not because they appealed to some abstract aestheticism, but because people &lt;i&gt;enjoyed&lt;/i&gt; them over and over and over until other artists imitated them and did variations and it became a &quot;classic&quot; by hard-won longevity. Opera and Shakespeare, both overwrought in our imaginations, are great entertainment at a lot of levels without a whole lot of preparation, but we put them on pedestals and it kills them.

Pete Seeger said, &quot;The worst thing you can do to a song is make it official.&quot; The worst thing you can do to a work of literature is make it a &quot;classic.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is what we geeks and nerds forget: some of this stuff is <i>good</i> literature, and the deep context, while fun, really isn&#8217;t necessary. Having the context may make it <i>Great</i> (or, conversely, make it only OK), but it&#8217;s not necessary. </p>
<p>I actually try to make that point about literature: the &#8220;high culture&#8221; and &#8220;classics&#8221; mostly exist and are revered not because they appealed to some abstract aestheticism, but because people <i>enjoyed</i> them over and over and over until other artists imitated them and did variations and it became a &#8220;classic&#8221; by hard-won longevity. Opera and Shakespeare, both overwrought in our imaginations, are great entertainment at a lot of levels without a whole lot of preparation, but we put them on pedestals and it kills them.</p>
<p>Pete Seeger said, &#8220;The worst thing you can do to a song is make it official.&#8221; The worst thing you can do to a work of literature is make it a &#8220;classic.&#8221;</p>
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