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	<title>Comments on: The Rules of the Game</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/2009/10/01/the-rules-of-the-game/</link>
	<description>Culture, Politics, Academia and Other Shiny Objects</description>
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		<title>By: Timothy Burke</title>
		<link>http://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/2009/10/01/the-rules-of-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-6857</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Burke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 11:00:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=999#comment-6857</guid>
		<description>Right. What I mean is that he doesn&#039;t show you the people who just look at him and say either, &quot;Oh, go away&quot; (cause where&#039;s the fun in that) or who say, &quot;You&#039;re just putting me on&quot;. (ditto). Not that he has to, it&#039;s just that you&#039;re not seeing the totality of how people react to him. 

I just get tired, I guess, of a certain kind of concern trolling. Say, for example, that I genuinely agree that there&#039;s a certain kind of concern for evidence or rigor that should be important in making any kind of intellectual or academic argument. If someone rolls up to my door and say, &quot;Hey, look, aren&#039;t you concerned by this academic who is making very strong claims in a public dispute but whose command of evidence is very slipshod&quot;, I might take a look and say, hm, why yes. But if the person rolling up to my door is someone with a record that&#039;s equally slipshod, my major irritation at that point is with the guy who approached me. 

Partisans hope to win the news cycle by mobilizing an engaged public who hope for something else from the news cycle besides winning that day&#039;s spin contest. Partisans hope to win today&#039;s blog bickering in the same way. But once the day&#039;s contest is over, partisans in both group go right back to bitching first and foremost not about their opposite numbers but about that engaged middle that looks to the public sphere as something other than a prize to be won.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right. What I mean is that he doesn&#8217;t show you the people who just look at him and say either, &#8220;Oh, go away&#8221; (cause where&#8217;s the fun in that) or who say, &#8220;You&#8217;re just putting me on&#8221;. (ditto). Not that he has to, it&#8217;s just that you&#8217;re not seeing the totality of how people react to him. </p>
<p>I just get tired, I guess, of a certain kind of concern trolling. Say, for example, that I genuinely agree that there&#8217;s a certain kind of concern for evidence or rigor that should be important in making any kind of intellectual or academic argument. If someone rolls up to my door and say, &#8220;Hey, look, aren&#8217;t you concerned by this academic who is making very strong claims in a public dispute but whose command of evidence is very slipshod&#8221;, I might take a look and say, hm, why yes. But if the person rolling up to my door is someone with a record that&#8217;s equally slipshod, my major irritation at that point is with the guy who approached me. </p>
<p>Partisans hope to win the news cycle by mobilizing an engaged public who hope for something else from the news cycle besides winning that day&#8217;s spin contest. Partisans hope to win today&#8217;s blog bickering in the same way. But once the day&#8217;s contest is over, partisans in both group go right back to bitching first and foremost not about their opposite numbers but about that engaged middle that looks to the public sphere as something other than a prize to be won.</p>
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		<title>By: jfruh</title>
		<link>http://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/2009/10/01/the-rules-of-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-6856</link>
		<dc:creator>jfruh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 06:25:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=999#comment-6856</guid>
		<description>And actually, Sasha Cohen shows you people reacting reasonably to his characters all the time.  Most of his funniest bits involve his victims desperately clinging to reasonable standards of behavior and acting as if they were participating in a wholly normal social interaction in the face howling lunacy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And actually, Sasha Cohen shows you people reacting reasonably to his characters all the time.  Most of his funniest bits involve his victims desperately clinging to reasonable standards of behavior and acting as if they were participating in a wholly normal social interaction in the face howling lunacy.</p>
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		<title>By: jfruh</title>
		<link>http://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/2009/10/01/the-rules-of-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-6855</link>
		<dc:creator>jfruh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 06:24:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=999#comment-6855</guid>
		<description>But who exactly do you expect to be consistent here? The &quot;left&quot; or the &quot;right&quot; as a whole?  Or does everyone who complains about the ACORN video need to have a cited example of a time they complain about Michael Moore in order to be taken seriously?

I think it&#039;s human nature for you to see the flaws in your opponent&#039;s gameplay more clearly than you see those of your allies.  But the loud complainers on each side of the debate actually represent a fairly small slice of the population, one that&#039;s both ideologically committed and really engaged in the grind of day-to-day news-cycle-winning politics.  The large middle can decide whether their arguments make sense, or not, but adding another layer of distraction and making the debate about whether people have a &lt;em&gt;right&lt;/em&gt; to make certain arguments, based on previous ideological or tactical positions, seems not useful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But who exactly do you expect to be consistent here? The &#8220;left&#8221; or the &#8220;right&#8221; as a whole?  Or does everyone who complains about the ACORN video need to have a cited example of a time they complain about Michael Moore in order to be taken seriously?</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s human nature for you to see the flaws in your opponent&#8217;s gameplay more clearly than you see those of your allies.  But the loud complainers on each side of the debate actually represent a fairly small slice of the population, one that&#8217;s both ideologically committed and really engaged in the grind of day-to-day news-cycle-winning politics.  The large middle can decide whether their arguments make sense, or not, but adding another layer of distraction and making the debate about whether people have a <em>right</em> to make certain arguments, based on previous ideological or tactical positions, seems not useful.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Burke</title>
		<link>http://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/2009/10/01/the-rules-of-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-6853</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Burke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 01:56:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=999#comment-6853</guid>
		<description>Moving in the direction of the society portrayed in Idiocracy. But not it&#039;s complaining about O&#039;Keefe--it&#039;s that treating capricious, cherrypicked bits of agitprop as if they&#039;re substantive and persuasive is the way we walk down that road.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Moving in the direction of the society portrayed in Idiocracy. But not it&#8217;s complaining about O&#8217;Keefe&#8211;it&#8217;s that treating capricious, cherrypicked bits of agitprop as if they&#8217;re substantive and persuasive is the way we walk down that road.</p>
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		<title>By: dkane</title>
		<link>http://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/2009/10/01/the-rules-of-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-6852</link>
		<dc:creator>dkane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 01:19:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=999#comment-6852</guid>
		<description>What is the connection to Idiocracy? If you complain about O???eefe then you are  &quot;paving the road&quot; toward more movies like Idiocracy being made or our society moving in the direction of the society portrayed in Idiocracy or what?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is the connection to Idiocracy? If you complain about O???eefe then you are  &#8220;paving the road&#8221; toward more movies like Idiocracy being made or our society moving in the direction of the society portrayed in Idiocracy or what?</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Burke</title>
		<link>http://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/2009/10/01/the-rules-of-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-6851</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Burke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 00:49:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=999#comment-6851</guid>
		<description>Yes, but the point some people are making is that he&#039;s not showing how many other ACORN employees told him to shove off or whatever. Which isn&#039;t something Moore mostly shows you, any more than Sacha Cohen shows you who reacted reasonably or knowingly to Borat or Bruno.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, but the point some people are making is that he&#8217;s not showing how many other ACORN employees told him to shove off or whatever. Which isn&#8217;t something Moore mostly shows you, any more than Sacha Cohen shows you who reacted reasonably or knowingly to Borat or Bruno.</p>
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		<title>By: emschwar</title>
		<link>http://blogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/2009/10/01/the-rules-of-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-6850</link>
		<dc:creator>emschwar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 21:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/?p=999#comment-6850</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think their actions (or results) are equivalent.  On the one hand, Moore goes in to his subjects under mostly fair pretenses (at least, they know he&#039;s there to interview them for a film); on the other, O&#039;Keefe didn&#039;t.  Then again, Moore frequently edits his interviews in ways that are misleading; O&#039;Keefe&#039;s full video is available and provides plenty of context that makes it even more clear that what the excerpts show is a fair representation of the whole thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think their actions (or results) are equivalent.  On the one hand, Moore goes in to his subjects under mostly fair pretenses (at least, they know he&#8217;s there to interview them for a film); on the other, O&#8217;Keefe didn&#8217;t.  Then again, Moore frequently edits his interviews in ways that are misleading; O&#8217;Keefe&#8217;s full video is available and provides plenty of context that makes it even more clear that what the excerpts show is a fair representation of the whole thing.</p>
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